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49 comments:
be nice if we actually knew who our leadership was
We have never had real leadership from the top.The real leaders have always come from the bottom. The top has always been busy kingdom building and ass kissing.
Well son, in order to "lead" from anywhere, you must first understand the true meaning of "leadership". I hope - deeply hope - that this is a sign of some long overdue changes.
Go back a few years and tell the uppers who you thought were real leaders in the PD, real supervisors, real leaders, wether you liked them personally or not. Give them an idea of the person you thought was a real leader reguardless of rank or personality. I don't think they ever got who we really respected as leaders, supervisors that we would look up to and follow. I think THEY need some roll models. Give them a couple.Lets not get into a trashing party. Let everyone give his / her opinion without thashing the opinion. Try it you'll like it.
Leadership From The Top! LMAO...Speaking of leadership, do we have any Deputy Chiefs and above who have any military experience?
We need Bobby Burgess back.
The thing is that most of you that post here have no idea what you are talking about. The Webster’s meaning for that is called ignorant, when you talk about something that you have no idea what you are talking about or how something works. The people in leadership now have worked for this department at a minimum of 20 years. What that means is they know the way this place should be run, but wait they have a boss his name is, Burrell Ellis. For all of you MPO’s and still wet behind the ears PO2’s and below, nothing will change overnight it’s called a process. We all have the opportunity to become leaders if we study for upcoming promotional test, so that we can become LEADERS. Now that’s CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN. Give the leaders currently in place a chance and stop being so negative. Put that energy into some positive thinking, your whole life will change. Ask yourself what bad decision has this administration made that affect you? This department is obviously a good place to work, because we are still here. We can make the change, first we must do what it takes to put ourselves in a position to make a change and become leaders. We can’t make any changes on this blog. And too the person that questions who has military experience, what does that have to do with anything? We have a few wars going on and the military is looking for volunteers every day you can’t sign up here. Thank you signed a future leader.
Leadership from the top eh? haha more like Leadership from behind....bend over and take it any way they give it to us!!
Say what you want about Chief Burgess, but there was never any doubt who was in charge. But that's what you get with appointed managers...you work to please the perceived wants/desires of the person who does the appointing so that you keep your goodies and not get un-appointed.
More like "Shit rolls down hill!"
Here comes the 5-2 baby!
For the gentlemen who stated "what does military experience play" it plays a great deal. Most people forget that a strong department relies from morals,standards, and para military structure.Those that have served know this, there is a fine point of running a department as a business and one that is totally military. The leaders and future ones, can balance the two and then deliver what is needed to appease the people and the ones that work for you. At the same time we all come from different standpoint but balance is the key to however you approach the situation.
"for all you MPO's and wet behind the ears POII's"...
I hear ya. That's why I've pulled back, show up and just do what I need to do: Produce and keep a low profile.
I've found job satisfaction in focusing on an area of patrol that "makes the county safer", produces good arrests/citations, and gives me the ability to do something that gives me satisfaction and the knowledge that, no matter how small or measurable, I've made some sort of impact.
We used to do other proactive, activities as a team, but those days are gone. Till they come back, I've found my niche and will stay focused.
For me, its a happy place....I answer my calls than look forward to doing my thing.... the supervisors like the citations and arrests.
I suppose Chief Holmes ram-rodding a five day work week down the throats of CID could be considered "Leadership From the Top". This place is going straight down the tubes. In three to five years this department is going to be a ghost town. The economy will getting better and the middle seniority MPO's will be leaving again because they are tired of getting dumped on by the chain of command, and most of the decent Sr. leadership will be gone because of early retirements. I can hardly wait.
Anybody want to guess who the top 2 behind the Director. Its a tight group and leadership and knowledge does not count.
Thanks Chief Holmes! Thanks alot for making CID work a 5 day work week. Is that the only thing that you could think of to change? You are in way over your head as a Chief. Not only will the 5 day work week kill morale in CID but costs will increase for overtime, gas, vehicle maintenance, and don't forget about the sick days in CID will increase. You're a disaster. What's the incentive to be in CID anymore. Give CID a pay increase like all of the surrounding departments and we might back you.
Say What you must about Chief Homes but at least he has the balls to make a change. I really hope you people get your people in place once you finish sticking in Homes' but, like you have done evey strong black leader in Dept. If i remember correctly Lane Woodard made Major and you slighted her at Tucker, Major Lane went to training and he was too dumb. Wiz Miller one of the brightest people in County and he is nothing but trash. How about lets just get Bolton and his crew back.
Was that Chief Holmes I saw standing on Memorial Drive trying to sale bean pies and handing out literature?
First I've not seen this so-called motto. However I do find alot of the posts here extremely childish. I find it funny that most complain about this supposed lack of leadership but don't really go in to specifics.
What exactly are you looking for? A different command staff? Well who's left to promote and I think the folks in place are doing a decent job. Cops EVERYWHERE complain about the brass, it's what we do. Same thing in the military.
Ramming the 5-2 down your throat, are you kidding me? When I came here almost 20 years ago it was 5-2. You want an incentive for CID? What happened to the incentive for being in CID was being called Detective? Too many people around here have the "whats in it for me" mentality. Hell the majority of you couldn't even pass the CID test last time it was given! And lets be serious for a moment, how many of those detectives are going to request a transfer back to uniform because of the schedule change?
Is everything all roses, of course not but to hear some of you it sounds like you're so unhappy. Well you can always go work somewhere else. That's the harsh reality of the situation.
What role does military experience play? Gee i don't know, how about we ask America's police chief; Bill Bratton. This man was able to reduce crime and unf..k the police departments in the two largest cities in the country, New York City and Los Angeles. All this without ANY military experience. Smells like a leader to me. The formula for success is to look to actual models of success. Just a thought.
Is Chief Holmes a Muslim?
Stupid slogans are what people put forth when they don’t really know anything else. True leadership is an uncommon virtue in this police department now. The bad culture of the department has just not produced a lot of good leadership over the last several years. I have not always felt that way about this department.
Chief O’Brien----A nice guy and a smart guy. No real experience as a commander of anything except IA and it shows. Doesn’t really understand police work overall because he has such minimal experience with it during his career. Because of this he relies on his aid, who was a sergeant just a few months ago, and that is not good. A lot of the euphoria of his replacing the idiot Bolton has worn off with the realization that he is just not ready for this.
Assistant Chief Kliesrath----Crazy as Bugs Bunny. An arrogant know it all who no one really likes and many people are beginning to hate. He has the people skills of a stray dog and is prone to talking down to people. The Uniform Division is suffering under this guy. Who in the hell thought it was a good idea to make this weirdo a chief? This is exactly what CEO Ellis said he would not tolerate.
Assistant Chief Holmes----A lot of experience as the commander of actual police units. Probably understands real police work much better than anyone in the command staff including the Director. Does not always make the popular decision but he will make a decision. He is sometimes prone to knee jerk reactions and people in CID say he should listen to his subordinates more. He is a friendly guy but people who do not know him say he doesn’t speak much. If he is going to be a chief he should be more outgoing.
Do you think I am being too negative? Then I will close with this:
Dep. Chief Woodard, Dep. Chief Jagoe, Dep. Chief Gassner and Dep. Chief Loos---Varying degrees of leadership skills but I can say something about all four of them. All of them are pretty damn smart. All of them are decent people and I believe all four of them treat people with respect. Three out of the four are females but I don’t care. Just calling it the way I see it.
Say what you will about Holmes but at least when he got his balls busted by Bolton he did keep doing his job around there. Unlike butt-kissing, hog head, Dan Jagoe and his side kick Annette Lane-Woodard who did nothing but bitch and moan and trash everyone else after they got sent to communications and only to later get rewarded for it by their buddy Miller-Time. This place sucks as much as ever. Jagoe kisses more butt than Horner ever did and no one thought that was possible.
Burgess? Personally I never trusted him or his team of cronies...and officers with REAL military experience make the best managers...and officers.
I don't understand what this place has against making things better for the workers. The 4 day work week increases moral. When I spend my week getting my butt kicked by the outrageous crime in this county and the outrageous inefficiency in this department I need three days off to retain my sanity. Not to mention the "Leaders" in this place misappropriate the manpower so badly that Its hard as hell to get any time off. I personally have hundreds of vacation hours saved because there is no way that I would ever get the time approved. The funny thing is that normal workplaces don't function like this. In the private sector employees take all of their vacation, as well as holidays, every year. Here I'm hardly able to take the holiday time I accrue. That is until the county does away with paid holidays.
That leads me to the practical reason for the 4 day work week, at least in CID. If detectives are working five days a week, then they are traveling to work and back home an extra day every week. That extra mileage adds up to a lot of money in extra gas across the division. I thought the county doesn't have any extra money. Isn't that the whole reason we are having unpaid holidays.
Now if Dekalb had concerned and prudent "Leaders", I would expect that they would consider these factors, along with others, and realize that a 4 day work week is a good thing. Instead we have Chief Holmes, who goes ahead with going back to five days a week, without regard for what it does to moral or how much it costs, just because he wants it that way.
Now I hate to single out Chief Holmes. At one time or another the entire command staff is guilty of doing things just like this. Its just that this is a timely and perfect example of our "Leaders" failing this department, its employees, and the citizens of this county.
First of all, where does the blog come up with this stuff? I haven’t seen the slogan either.
I used to read this blog frequently and I will admit that it was a good way to show the conditions under former Police Chief Bolton. However, now I see that it has become a way for 10% of our officers to vent about anything and everything. Are we better off now than we were under Bolton? Yes. Do we have room to improve? Absolutely, and I know that the entire Command staff would agree. It takes time people. Time and a lot of money. We do not have money to spend to bring the Department where it needs to be and if we did it still would not happen overnight.
I think we are on the right track with the leaders that were put into place. They are all products of this police department and are in the areas where their expertise serves the department best. I have seen a lot of things take place already that are positive and an indicator that we are on the right track. The Department is utilizing grant money to provide things for the line officers that would normally end up in specialized positions. For example, spot lights on the patrol cars and mountain bikes for patrol. For those of you in the Criminal Investigation Division that oppose the 5/2, guess what? You can go back to uniform and work the 4/3. The 5/2 serves the citizens of the county and the department better. That is what it is about. Remember?
Contrary to what the 10% of you might believe, this department is not all about you and what you should get for being a public servant. Nobody is keeping you here. If you do not like it here, leave. It is that simple. We are our own worst enemies. We have officers that end up in the news for doing stupid stuff all the time. Internal Affairs and supervisors in general are inundated with complaints because we do stupid stuff all the time. If you want to be treated like professionals, start acting like professionals and take pride in yourself and the department. Until we all do that, we have nothing to gripe about. You get what you deserve.
I would like to see the day that we all work together and realize why we took this job. Not for money, the 4/3, the 5/2, weekends off, holidays off, take home cars, shiny objects, and everything else you are complaining about. We took this job because we had pride in the police department and take pride in helping others.
Good luck, stay safe, and look into the mirror before judging others. When you become perfect, then you can talk about those that are not. Of course if you were perfect then you would know that you shouldn’t talk about others anyway.
Lots of private companies and government agencies have figured out that a 4-3 work week is a good way to save money. Many switched to that work week within the last 6 months.
What does DeKalb do?? The exact opposite!! Does the BOC know about this?? Does Ellis?? Aren't they looking for $50 million is cost cutting to avoid layoffs??
I would also point out the improved morale a 4-3 work week provides, but we all know those kinds of concerns will fall on deaf ears.
If you wanna learn about leadershp, then go look at Major Fore. He is doing a great job at Tucker. The Capts, Lts, and Sgts love him. He let's you do your job, and he doesnt get off on humiliating people and grandstanding on the radio (like Chief Kliesrath did last week). He treats everyone with respect, he's very intelligent, but he will also handle business if you get out of line. Please leave him at Tucker!
Ok lets be honest very few people come here for the career job anymore.
It's nothing more than a stop over for the degenerates that society has raised these days.
Blame the mothers and lack of fathers that have been around thier kids and raised them with morals.
Now persoanlly as an adult it's up to you to make the difference, just because you were raised poor or neglected dosent mean you cant be a productive person in society.
So does anyone really think that we are getting quality personel any more, hell you cant even get quality military personal any longer.
You cant even yell at them in basic training or use profanity to tell them how sorry they are.
I've even had officers complain on me that I have spoken harshly to them.
Now keep in mind I never used profanity towards them but just told them they basically are falling short, bunch of damn pansy asses!
I agree leave if you dont like it here, stop waisting my time and the few good officers that are here.
I liked Burgess we never heard about all the crap that went on, im sure it did but it was kept quite I guess.
We have more now under O'Brien & Miller than we have in the last 10 years. They have thier hands full of crap that was left by that Racist ass Vernon Jones.
He is the person who deserves to be singled out with the counties demise, it all started with his appointments.
Now leave me be, Ethels gunna get a smack down.
Some of those comments about Chief Holmes are over the line. If you do not like the 5-2 then it is fine to say so. But he is selling bean pies on Memorial Dr? Is Chief Holmes a Muslim? Absolute ignorance!
Some of you guys should be careful. Your KKK hood just fell out of your pocket.
Jagoe, Woodard and Holmes refused to kiss Bolton’s ass. That is why they were never promoted AND they were all transferred under Bolton.
I agree completely with the post about Major Fore. A damn good guy!
You people at Tucker love Fore for the same reason you loved Annette Lane, because he is a push over just like her. No management skills, just a nice guy who doesnt want to make anyone of you cry. Jagoe has always been and always will be a kiss ass. Bolton just happened to have seen through his BS.
Just because Lane-Woodard and Fore have people skills and they don’t think they know everything does not mean they are pushovers. It is actually a good leadership trait. They will actually speak to you and listen to advice from subordinates.
The opposite of that? Try Brian Harris, Mike Yarbrough and Frank Kliesrath. They have absolutely no people skills and they have no reason to listen to anyone. You know why they have no reason to listen to anyone? They already know everything about everything. And if you don’t believe they know everything just hang around them for a few minutes. You will see. Vernon Jones arrogance has nothing on these three wise men.
"Dep. Chief Woodard, Dep. Chief Jagoe, Dep. Chief Gassner and Dep. Chief Loos-...... Three out of the four are females but I don’t care. Just calling it the way I see it."
I'm just glad Jagoe AIN'T a female. Can you imagine waking up with that mug staring at you? ;-{
If you think Major Fore is a push-over, then come to Tucker and F--- up and see what happens to you. Dont mistake his kindness for weakness. Trust me, I've seen it. You can discipline folks for misconduct in a respectful manner. Its called treating others as you would have them treat you!
If you want to increase morale, you can start by using the same rank system (A,B,C bands) that we use for promotions and also use them for the CID test. This way everyone has a fair shot at going to CID without having to go kiss someone's ass first. If I finish number 3 on the CID test tnen you cant pick number 4 before you pick me.
To the poster who asked 'what does military experience have to do with leadership?' You just proved my point. If you had military experience you wouldnt ask such an ignorant question. The military is the one place you actually get real leadership training, and have real leaders to model yourself after. It's Country first before all else.
It's called "Chickification" of the police department.
Here a point to be made,the 3 of our current Command Staff was offer a position under Former Chief Bolton.
They were all were reassign for whatever reason. You have to wonder why. Some were never promoted to begin with in the new era.
Some have got their degree while on duty and on-line for whatever that may help them.
'Leadership From the Top?' Here's their chance to prove it. In 2010 all supervisors from Captains and above (managers) take 6 voluntary furlough days (1 every other month)to prevent the rank and file from having money taken from them again. After all, you are the guys making the good money. Let's put this new slogan to the test! Do we need to include Lieutenants too?
Why is it that when someone makes a derogatory comment about some of color then it's assumed that they are white....hence the KKK comment....well just for the record....I am someone of color and I'm making the derogatory comment about Holmes....guess I'm an Uncle Tom now....come on people Let's Be careful with your racist comments. It has absolutely nothing to do with the race or color of the person but whether that person is or should be in that position and if they are even qualified.
Ok the person who talked about Asst. Chief Holmes,you said you were a person of color. I have a problem buying into that. The ole bait and switch.
Lets stop fooling each other, there is a race issue in this department and this blog helps promote the ignorance of these people. I thought at first it was about tebo but I clearly see that it is not.
I respect Chief O'Brien and I hope he will make sure this department id fair in their treatment of all officers. Morale is up, crime is down and we all have a job.
I guess we forgot that we are all BLUE. Well we are no matter what they think. If a 63 came out I dont care what color you are I am there.
instead of fighting against each other lets unleash the Black cats, TRT and TAC on these perps.We got business to handle, crime to fight and people to serve.
Martin Luther King Stated" if we went an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth everyone would be blind and toothless". in other words lets work together for a common good DKPD. NO place for haters.
I say lets see if we can hire Steven Seigall to be a deputy chief?
ok why do drug dealers and perps still hang on corners in Dekalb? where is the blackcats,ICP,TRT,crosswalking guards?
Obrien is a nice guy but he is in over his head.
To all the blind loyalist, open your eyes and look around you. Chief Obrien has taken care of all of his boys, and we are back to the good old boy days of Bobby Burgess. Look at all of your coveted units and look at who are running them; Major Felony, Swat, Special Ops, TRT, IA, Training, Narcotics,,..Even Dep. Chief Woodard knows Major Craddock goes directly to his boy Chief Obrien, and is really running CID. Major Craddock referred to Chief Obrien in an open meeting as 'Bill.' WOW!
If anyone thinks that Chief O'Brien in running this department they are fooling themselves. NOTHING happens in this department without the blessing of Director Wiz Miller. My guess is that Miller didn't want to lower himself to being a uniformed police officer again and wouldn't accept the chief position. So his boy Burell Ellis created him the director position and placed a firgurehead in the chief position.
Craddock is a light weight. I can't imagine how some of these people get promoted to high positions.
Find me one person who has worked under Craddock that has anything negative to say about him!
Sooo, now Craddock is the problem? You folks are a joke. It wasnt that high of an appointment,he EARNED captain and was appointed one rank. The way its supposed to be. He has great ideas and brings enthusiam to his officers. I've worked for him when he was Sgt and as Major. Back off of him, and by the way. ALL the guys at the top call each other by their first name. so what. When I greet you I'll call you by your first name..."Idiot" You obviously did something unethical and he didnt let you slide, now thats the Craddock I know.
Go Jets!
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